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I greatfully request help from you router networking experts!

emind1

I WOULD GREATLY APPRECIATE HELP or ADVISE FROM YOU EXPERTS.

I have a major networking problem. Im a noob at this & have tried to explain the best I can. Sorry if I confuse you!

I have a cable connection & 3 active router modems (1 ommitted) connected using wifi &/or lan cables.

The big problem is a separate tenant who also uses the same internet service.

There’s no guest network but I want to make sure there’s no access to my network or there network.

 

4 modem routers (M/R’s)

* M/R1- CG3000V3-Netgear - cable connection IN (wifi ON).

* M/R2 – 3864 V3 SAGEMCOM – (OMITTED – CONNECTION/TIME OUT PROBLEMS – thanks optus)

* M/R3-  d-Link AC1750 (wifi OFF).

* M/R4-  CG814WG-Netgear - tenant ntwk (wifi ON)

 

2 DIFFERENT NTWRKS (ntwk1 & ntwk4 - MASK 255.255.255.128)

M/R1- ntwk1 - (wifi ON)-

M/R3 - ntwk1 - (wifi OFF) -

M/R4 - ntwk4 - (wifi ON for tenants unit)

 

This is how it is connected up.

Cable In  --- M/R1 - CG3000V2 (ntwk1)

* M/R 1(lan 3)   ---  lan cable --- M/R3 - DLINK (lan 1)

* M/R 1(lan 4)  ---  lan cable  --- M/R4 - CG814 (lan1) ntwk4 - TENANT (bad wifi connection-distance) - cable needed.

------------------------

(ntwk1)

* M/R1 - (wifi ON) - bed rm area – (tv / tv box / office (computers/laptops/printers)

MASK 255.255.255.128 (2 networks)

192.168.0.2 (static)

DHCP ON - 192.168.0.5 - 192.168.0.100

 

* M/R3 - (lan cable to M/R1- wifi OFF) - lounge rm area (tv / tv box / HDdrvs)

MASK 255.255.255.0 (IS THIS THE CORRECT MASK ???)

192.168.0.3 (static)

DHCP ON - 192.168.0.101 - 192.168.0.127

------------------------

 (ntwk2 - TENANT)

* M/R4 (wifi ON - full unit coverage)

MASK 255.255.255.0 (IS THIS THE CORRECT MASK ???)

192.168.0.129 (static)

DHCP ON - 192.168.0.130 - 192.168.0.254

------------------------

I spent a long time trying to get this to work properly. I finally came up with this solution (through trial by error &  A LOT OF READING). I ADMIT IM CONFUSED ... BIG TIME

The tenant says it seems to be working BUT I’m still worried its not done correctly.

Is this the correct way to connect and completely isolate the two networks?

Im not sure the masks or my ip addressing are correct BECAUSE I checked on the “netgear genie app”(shows all networks & connections) and it shows the tenants mob & laptop with IP’s 192.168.0.13 & 15 (which shows they’re connected to ntwk1 & they shouldn’t be connected to it). Tenant IP’s should be showing between 130 & 254 (showing them as connected to ntwk2).

No idea as to why it shows these addresses.

 

This "GENIE CG3000 app" is quite good. Saved me a bit of time and I could see everything on my network.

The "app" shows everything ... ntwks 2&4 (& all connections)

My CG3000V2 "admin settings" does not show the tenants ntwk4 at all, just my ntwk1. NO IDEA WHY???

My dlink (M/R3 - part of my ntwk1) also shows the tenants M/R4  - CG814WG (ntwk2) IP 192.168.0.129.

 

Im lost with it all.

Thanks in advance for your advice and wisdom.

I could sure use it.

Glen

 

p.s.

If anyone is interested in getting the netgear genie app :-

PC download: http://updates1.netgear.com/netgeargenie/update/NETGEARGenie-install.exe
Mac download: http://updates1.netgear.com/netgeargenie/mac/update/NETGEARGenieInstaller.dmg

Re: I greatfully request help from you router networking experts!

petergdownload

One question. Why so many modems?

 

Could you just replace them with $25 switches. Might simplify things a bit

Re: I greatfully request help from you router networking experts!

emind1

* M/R1- CG3000V3 (ntwk1)-wifi for office & bedroom (tv, tv box etc) the USB doesnt work. Lan cable to  d-Link AC1750 (ntwk1) loungeroom area tv, tv box & can connect the video harddrives there. Can feed back to office / bedroom if needed.

* M/R4-  CG814WG (ntwk2) for the tenant unit & obviously tenant wants wifi through out the unit.

Cant use my wifi because the distance makes it unreliable and theres no guest functions on the router modems so lan cable back to

M/R1- CG3000V3.

 

$25 switches???? Sorry I have no idea what your talking about mate!

Re: I greatfully request help from you router networking experts!

[ Edited ]
petergdownload

So in a 'standard' setup you have one modem. Everything splits out from there. If you need remote wifi then there are various options for that. But if you just need the internet in another room then at the end of the cable you can put in a switch (a dumb plug and play "double adapter" like this.) 

 

Not sure if those are helpful but just mentioning them (sounds like you are using modems as quasi switches anyway) . 

 

Will get back to you on the rest fof the setup. Impressive.

 

Peter Gillespie

Highlighted

Re: I greatfully request help from you router networking experts!

Mkrtich

emind1 - I am no expert, challenged by understanding routers, find network subnetting very complex and beyond my comprehension levels. In home networks, simple solutions tend have less points of potential failure and are easier to troubleshoot. It appears you wish to isolate the tenant network M/R4 from your combined network M/R1 and M/R3 and grant the tenant access to your Internet only. In your experiments , had you considered or attempted to try both traditional methods of cascading routers,  a combination of LAN-LAN and LAN-WAN. I can't guarantee this fits your application as I don't know what impact it may have on your network applications. Also suggest to view some really good YouTube clips on connecting two routers for more background.

 

Based on my very basic understanding and this article, https://www.linksys.com/ca/support-article?articleNum=132275 , I think you would achieve the separation you are seeking whilst providing an Internet service to your tenant. Under the setups depicted, after setup completed, you could only access System Admin Screens for M/R1 and M/R3 and the Tenant could only access M/R4 Admin Screens; devices in each network can not communicate with each other, but M/R4 devices should be able to access the Internet.

 

Starting on your own network first

M/R1 LAN to LAN port connection to M/R3 ; M/R1 does DHCP for both - one logical network, M/R3 DHCP is OFF - all devices in your personal network get their IP address from M/R1 = 192.168.0.1 with range 192.168.0.2 - 192.168.0.254 and Subnetmask 255:255:255:0 . You have assigned Static IP Address 192.168.0.3 to M/R3 for its LAN port connection and Static 192.168.0.2 for a device within M/R1. Restart both routers. I run two routers this way at home and all works fine.

 

Then for the Tenant Network - per the Linksys guide - Connect M/R1 LAN port to M/R4 WAN port ; M/R4 is a separate network and has a different IP address assigned e.g. 192.168.1.1 with range 192.168.1.2 - 192.168.1.254 with Subnetmask 255:255:255:0. You have assigned Static IP Address 192.168.0.129 in M/R1 for the WAN port connection in M/R4.  Restart the router.

 

I think the reason why you are seeing IP addresses 13 and 15 for the tenant rather than the expected ones, is that you currently have one logical network with three routers in your set up with three DHCP servers active and the tenant devices are being connected to the quickest available DHCP at the time. For simple networks, I think the Rule of Thumb is to only have one active DHCP server in a network. Usually home networks employ a 192.168.0.1/24 address scheme which covers 0-255 IP addresess (1, for the router and 2-254 available for use). By activating a subnet of 255:255:255:128, a /25 network is created limiting you to 128 IP addresses, which may explain why 130-254 are not showing up. Hope this helps.

 

Re: I greatfully request help from you router networking experts!

petergdownload

Great run down @Mkrtich . There was a lot of information in the OP post and would take a fair bit to digest and then advise.

 

1) I was also of the impression that the solution was more complex than needed. 

2) Agree there should only be a single DHCP server if possible

 

I'd suggest to the OP to backup the current settings on the modems (if that feature exists) and perhaps just try setup the main modem (getting the internet) and the tennant link modem. You can do it all in the same room and be able to test the setups pretty quickly.

 

Good Luck (let us know if it works.

 

Peter Gillespie

Re: I greatfully request help from you router networking experts!

emind1

Hi Ray .... correct ... everything supplied from M/R1.

Lan cable from M/R1(wifi - bedroom/office areas) to M/R3 (no wifi - loungeroom area) so they are both on ntwk1.

Another lan cable from M/R1 to M/R4 (to supply tenant with wifi through their unit).

It is sort of setup like switch ...come to think of it.

Ill add further in the next replys.

Thanks heaps for your input.

Glen.

p.s. Tenant reports theres been no network/connection problems since it was setup like this.

Re: I greatfully request help from you router networking experts!

emind1

Hi Mkrtich ,

FIRSTLY ...the tenant has said that there's not been one dropout or loss of internet access since I have setup the networks this way! So this is working ... so far!

Yes I see where you are coming from!

Youve made an EXCELLENT POINT about the DHCP! (ill get to that in a moment).

YES correct ..."I wish to isolate the tenant network M/R4 (wifi) from my combined ntwk1(M/R1 and M/R3) so we both can access internet but not each others computers on the network.

After a lot of reading/youtube etc i heard that by having 2 different networks that they can not access each other which is why I used the mask "255:255:255:128". Privacy/segregation is the priority here.

Every peripheral on my network (ntwk1) has a static IP address (tv's, tv boxs, video harddrive, printer etc.) except the computers & laptops.

M/R1 (05-100) and M/R3(101-127)  both have DHCP ON - hence why split into 2 groups. My network (ntwk1) works fine. No probs what so ever! I set it up this way so I could tell strait away (via the IP address range) that if a problem surfaced I'd know what area I needed to look at.

128 addresses split across both modems is way way more than my ntwk1 needs & 128 addresses also more than enough for the tenant.

M/R4  was assigned to static Ip 192.168.0 129 (range 130-254)... this is the second part of mask 255.255.255.128

 

Youve made an EXCELLENT POINT about the DHCP! .. I never thought about it & I think your definitely on the money that this is the reason why IP's 13 & 15 are showing on the tenants ntwk (ntwk4).

 

As you said .. "Connect M/R1 LAN port to M/R4 WAN port "

M/R4 (netgear CG814WG) has no wan port ... only 4 x lan ports. A lan cable connects M/R1 (lan4) to M/R4 (lan1).

Only the CG3000 has a wan port.

Im not sure if connecting the CG3000V2 wan port to M/R4 lan port (with a completely different set of IP's) will work.

(I have a spare SAGEMCOM 3864V3 but Im not keen to use it .. had heaps of problems trying to get it setup thats why I totally removed it from my networks setup .. .but I MIGHT BE LEFT WITH NO CHOICE BUT TO TRY IT AGAIN)

 

When I first started to deal with this entire problem I tried assigning a completely different range for ntwk4 ... I actually did use 192.168.1.1 with range 192.168.1.2 - 192.168.1.254 with Subnetmask 255:255:255:0. but I couldnt get it to work properly.

I can never get this WAN - LAN thing sorted out! Confuses the heck out of me.

 

This is why its been such a problem trying to setup the tenants network.

 Ive just now checked the CG300V2 network map and it shows the tenants IP's as 08 & 09. So these are being generated from M/R1's DHCP! ... so Im assuming the tenant is accessing the internet on my network (ntwk1)

well theres still a problem somewhere within the network.

 

Youve helped heaps  

Thanks

Glen

 

 

 

 

Re: I greatfully request help from you router networking experts!

emind1

Hi Peter thats what I originaly did using the CG814WG (NETGEAR) "in house" when I was testing this all out before installing it at the tenants.

My network (M/R1) works perfectly. NOT ONE PROBLEM.

I cant get away with one DHCP because the CG814WG (NETGEAR) has no wan port!

 

Cheers

Glen

Re: I greatfully request help from you router networking experts!

Mkrtich

Are you on pre NBN HFC or NBN HFC ?

 

Sorry that I didn't check your CG814WG Router specs before I responded. So its WAN is a Coax DOCSIS 2.0 connector that is not used. The LAN ports are strictly LAN and can not be programmed as WAN. Given it is 2007 vintage, recommend you replace it with a newer model - if you look on Gumtree in the Freebies section, surprisingly, you will find plenty of suitable alternatives. You can also buy great value used or new models for $10-$30. People have accumulated replacement models from carriers sent by mistake or sometimes they upgrade, change carriers or just want to dispose of redundant gear. A few months ago, for testing, I purchased a F@ST3864V3AC for $10. 

 

Do not use the WAN port on your main CG3000V2 Modem/Router Gateway to connect to the CG814WG. On pre-NBN HFC, your CG3000V2 is connected to the Internet on its WAN Coax DOCSIS 3.0 port. It can only operate on one WAN at a time - either Coax WAN or IP WAN e.g. in an NBN environment, NBN provide the Arris DOCSIS 3.1 Modem and in theory, you can connect the WAN port of the CG3000V2 to the LAN port of the Arris Modem. You will be provided with a new Carrier Router by your RSP and then you could reuse your CG3000V2 as a better Wi-Fi Access Point or IP WAN Enabled LAN Switch for Tenants.

 

Your spare Sagemcom V3 - have you factory reset it from within the Web Browser and what were the stability issues - if they were Wi-Fi related, maybe they are not applicable in the Tenant configuration . If problematic, suggest the Gumtree avenue. 

 

A LAN Switch is like sending a note to your local neighbour, it knows everyone's IP Address and internally switches it to them using their local IP address range. When the person you want to send a note to lives outside your neighbourhood (different IP Address Range) the request  and note is given to the PostMaster (Router) who wraps it up in an envelope, addresses it accordingly with a Post Code to a foreign IP address and range; the Router's function is to send it off for delivery,  via its WAN port - either to the Internet or a different local network which is differentiated by having a unique IP Address range. That is why anything you connect to a WAN port should have a different IP Address Range to your local network. 

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