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Frequent Contributor
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Re: NBN Cable modem Arris CM8200B


The more things you integrate into one device (modem/VOIP/router/wifi) the less stable it becomes?

No, not at all, its just that the sagemcom have issues,  and a lot of those issue stem from deliberate crippeling/limiting of the features by Optus. 

Splitting off functions to seperate devices and limiting the number of functions each device performs... makes the whole system less prone to problems.

 


No, if anything it increases the chance of problems. But what it does do it allows for us to use the features that we best like. In my case:

- modem is handled by the NBN box, and must be handled by that box, so I don't even have a choice.

- VoIP, the 5366TN, is fine for that, but that's all I would need from it. I chose to use my voice adapter (Linksys PAP2) purely because it is a little cheaper to run, even though I haven't yet figured out how to get caller ID to work on it.

Modem<Router<VOIP (less preferable)

Modem<VOIP (preferred)

Modem<Router (preferred)

1st/3rd is purely a personal preference .

2nd option will only work if the VoIP is actually a VoIP/Router because you need a router to give your other devices internet access.

Unfortunately the Arris HFC modem has neither a second ethernet port nor a VOIP connector.

As the technology matures newer HFC cable modems will probably include a VOIP connector... making the Sagemcom router/voip redundant? Similar thing happened with the Cisco cable modems we're now replacing.

🙂


The Arris HFC modem is owned and controlled by the NBN, its only job is/and always will be to just provide a WAN connection. After that its the RSP/users problem of how they intend to the internet that comes out of the WAN port.

FTTP is different in that it provided 4 lan ports and 2 voice ports. and it s not a router as far as the RSP/User is concerned. Even though they have two voice ports RSP's are loathed to use them because they pay a lot extra for them (from what I read long ago).

 

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Regular Contributor
Regular Contributor

Re: NBN Cable modem Arris CM8200B

@Xcelplus- just a few comments on your last post. The F@ST5366TN also features an Integrated Firewall Function and DNS Server, the Arris Modem doesn't, so not a good idea to leave any device, other than the F@ST5366TN or your Router, connected to the Arris for any length of time unless troubleshooting. For troubleshooting, the active LAN port is sometimes used by technicians and users to do a speedtest.net test to verify the actual link speed of the NBN service before it comes into the F@ST5366TN, as the PC has a Software Firewall, then quickly withdrawn after the test is completed.

It does have two LAN ports, but the second is covered up and Disabled by NBN. Once activated by NBN, it is not possible to interrogate the Arris through its IP Address for network statistics.  For HFC only users, I can't see any foreseeable replacement to the Arris for some time - it is capable of operating at DOCSIS 3.1 levels which NBN will eventually migrate to , at variable higher speeds, in the future - I have read that NBN have trialled it operating at 1Gbps Download / 100 Mps Upload with RSPs. The question then becomes what users are willing to pay for high speed links, what target market it will address and how RSPs will market it - I have seen mention of $700-$1,000 a month, so most humble home users are not the target market . 

I agree with you in regards to putting all the eggs in one basket, however this is a global trend in most technology based devices . The main issue effecting reliability is not the hardware per se but the Open Source Software Engines and Apps that drive all brands of modems and routers being half baked upon release due to marketing and price pressures. No brand is immune from this phenomena each continuing to release firmware fixes for bugs as they are identified by users - I've read some disappointing reviews on current ASUS DSL Routers in Australia.

It's a matter of doing what you are comfortable with supporting yourself and dealing with issues as they arise - that's the fun in communications. All the best. 

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Contributor Xcelplus
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Re: NBN Cable modem Arris CM8200B

Hi,

Virtually every router you can buy has a firewall and DNS server (I can't think of one that doesn't)... so the Sagemcom isn't doing anything special?

I didn't know the Arris modem doesn't have a firewall and DNS server... so thanks for bringing that to my attention.

Thanks for also pointing out that a second ethernet port exists on the modem and that it's disabled. I didn't notice it as it's taped over.

Gigabit ethernet is meant to go live in November and the wholesale prices are $80/month. Obviously we have no idea how much the retail will be... but probably affordable?

https://www.itnews.com.au/news/nbn-co-floats-up-to-gigabit-speeds-for-80-a-month-531066

The trick with routers is to find one that has enough firmware updates to make it stable? Asus has done hundreds of updates to both the AC68 and the AC88 and continues to update them regularly years after they have been released. They are both well spec'd hardware wise... so the CPU's aren't overloaded easily when you get them to do a bit of work?

Many DSL modems do perform poorly... including Asus. Part of the reason is that they're trying to integrate too many things into one box. That's why a standalone router usually works better than an integrated modem/router? The bugs in the software are much easier to fix in simpler devices... as there's less potential for conflicts? 

Typically I only mess with our network when it's not working properly. At the moment we're just about to upgrade to NBN HFC from cable... and we're being asked to pay about 50% more for 50% less speed  and 50% less reliability. 

This is all just due diligence to ensure I know a bit about the NBN HFC before it goes live... and aimed at avoiding problems before they arise. 

🙂

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Regular Contributor
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Re: NBN Cable modem Arris CM8200B

Yes - All routers have those two features with varying degrees of flexibility - I only mentioned them to distinguish the 5366TN from the Arris so that you would know not to leave any PC on the Arris for a lengthy period of time. 

Thanks for the heads up on the current state of developments mentioned in the article. The real impediment for RSPs to date has been and will continue to be the CVC component of the NBN pricing model. They haven't been in a rush to offer higher speeds due to this - RSPs pay a wholesale charge for the Access Virtual Circuit (AVC) - charges quoted in the article  plus a Connectivity Virtual Circuit (CVC) - that component is the stumbling block. When Bill Morrow was the CEO, it was reduced from $20/Megabit/Second/End User to $14.40/M/S/EU and discounted up to $8/M/S/EU if bulk capacity purchased. Looks like NBN will now include the first $5.75-$6 M/S/EU as a basic allotment free of charge, thereby effectively discounting the previous CVC rate.   

https://www.nbnco.com.au/content/dam/nbnco2/documents/is-nbn-cvc-charge-to-blame-position-paper-1707...

I can understand why it is a difficult situation for RSPs and they have not been in a rush to market with these packages - for every 1000 Mbps customer, they have to enable enough capacity in the CVCs to provide that service, recover the same revenue from one customer that they otherwise would recover from 20 customers who are on a 50 Mbps service. Apart from limiting the future higher speed services, which start at from 250 Mbps, initially to FTTP and HFC customers, the CVC charging model is capable of contributing to a highly verticalised market of specialist RSPs who have big pockets for investment funds - I think we will see a rationalisation on RSP players as a result. 

Contributor Xcelplus
Contributor

Re: NBN Cable modem Arris CM8200B

Thanks for pointing out the Arris weaknesses.

Those were useful points.

Likewise the problems with wholesale NBN pricing have been in the news a bit... but the nuts and bolts of how it affects the telco's isn't always clear to the end user.

I think there is a fair bit of pent up demand for the faster speeds if the pricing is reasonable. Reasonable pricing will see a steady trickle of customers taking advantage of the faster speeds. The cheaper it is the faster people will adopt the faster speeds?

I've always wondered why so few people signed up to the 100 Mbps cable services (while complaining about slow speeds)? ...although when talking to users I usually found it was because they didn't realise 100 Mbit was available. That was usually because their ISP's couldn't provide it or because they wanted them to buy ADSL (Optus and Telstra shops rarely sold cable plans). Sometimes it was because the Telco's refused to connect them (for various reasons)... despite the cables being right outside their doors. This was really annoying and may have led to the perception that not many people are interested in fast internet? That belief is probably misplaced?

🙂
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